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	<title>Comments on: Taiwanese:  The Americans of 1776</title>
	<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 07:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Danny</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-182</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Sep 2005 13:40:18 -0700</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-182</guid>
					<description>hopefully this article will help everyone understand further about us no matter which side you stand. excellent job ray, i knew you would blow me away with this!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>hopefully this article will help everyone understand further about us no matter which side you stand. excellent job ray, i knew you would blow me away with this!
</p>
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		<title>by: doug</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-190</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 15:50:50 -0700</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-190</guid>
					<description>It's interesting to read such a lengthy article that yet makes no mention of the differences in perspective between the taiwanese-speaking and mandarin-speaking populations living in Taiwan.  These are significant, especially among the older generation.  Plenty of those who trace their roots in Taiwan back several generations are not merely suspicious of the Communist government in China, but still harbor resentment towards the KMT government and their forcible takeover and rule of the island.  After a century of rule by outsiders, it's no wonder that plenty of Taiwanese want Taiwan to have its own identity.  Most &quot;mainland chinese&quot; I've met don't get this at all, unfortunately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s interesting to read such a lengthy article that yet makes no mention of the differences in perspective between the taiwanese-speaking and mandarin-speaking populations living in Taiwan.  These are significant, especially among the older generation.  Plenty of those who trace their roots in Taiwan back several generations are not merely suspicious of the Communist government in China, but still harbor resentment towards the KMT government and their forcible takeover and rule of the island.  After a century of rule by outsiders, it&#8217;s no wonder that plenty of Taiwanese want Taiwan to have its own identity.  Most &#8220;mainland chinese&#8221; I&#8217;ve met don&#8217;t get this at all, unfortunately.
</p>
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		<title>by: ray lee</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-191</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 23:47:38 -0700</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-191</guid>
					<description>Doug:  There are many reasons of why I didn't make mention of it.  The main reason would be that I don't know for sure.  I have interviewed many Taiwanese people in regards to this article, but none have expressed that opinion to me.  Being that I am not Taiwanese and the only access to sources are from interviews of Taiwanese immigrants and their children, I cannot possibly cover every aspect of the differences and persepectives.

However, I do appreciate your insight and opinion.  Understanding this topic is never ending, for those of us who aren't Taiwanese and even those who are.  Thank you for your comment.

-ray lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Doug:  There are many reasons of why I didn&#8217;t make mention of it.  The main reason would be that I don&#8217;t know for sure.  I have interviewed many Taiwanese people in regards to this article, but none have expressed that opinion to me.  Being that I am not Taiwanese and the only access to sources are from interviews of Taiwanese immigrants and their children, I cannot possibly cover every aspect of the differences and persepectives.</p>
	<p>However, I do appreciate your insight and opinion.  Understanding this topic is never ending, for those of us who aren&#8217;t Taiwanese and even those who are.  Thank you for your comment.</p>
	<p>-ray lee
</p>
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		<title>by: Michael Turton</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-192</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:20:20 -0700</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-192</guid>
					<description>Few Taiwanese will openly discuss the ethnic divide, partly because they themselves do not know how to articulate to themselves or others. In conversation a Taiwanese might describe themselves as Chinese in any number of ways, since Chinese can refer to a region (= West), a nationality (= Canadian), a culture, and so on. They have been taught to think very stereotypically about their national identity, so it is often hard for them to discuss it with outsiders.

&lt;i&gt;The Chinese then governed the island for another two hundred years before losing it to the Japanese in the Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895).&lt;/i&gt;

The Manchus were not Chinese. 

The Taiwanese are not denouncing their roots but embracing them. All of the pre-1945 population has aboriginal genetic markers, thanks to intermarriage. &quot;ethnically&quot; chinese is simply a political construction; Taiwanese are ethnically Taiwanese, but this identity was suppressed by the KMT when they occupied the island in 1945, and especially after 1949 when they lost mainland and retreated to taiwan. An idealized and stereotyped Chinese culture was substituted for the local one, and thus the Taiwanese were made into Chinese.

Michael
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Few Taiwanese will openly discuss the ethnic divide, partly because they themselves do not know how to articulate to themselves or others. In conversation a Taiwanese might describe themselves as Chinese in any number of ways, since Chinese can refer to a region (= West), a nationality (= Canadian), a culture, and so on. They have been taught to think very stereotypically about their national identity, so it is often hard for them to discuss it with outsiders.</p>
	<p><i>The Chinese then governed the island for another two hundred years before losing it to the Japanese in the Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895).</i></p>
	<p>The Manchus were not Chinese. </p>
	<p>The Taiwanese are not denouncing their roots but embracing them. All of the pre-1945 population has aboriginal genetic markers, thanks to intermarriage. &#8220;ethnically&#8221; chinese is simply a political construction; Taiwanese are ethnically Taiwanese, but this identity was suppressed by the KMT when they occupied the island in 1945, and especially after 1949 when they lost mainland and retreated to taiwan. An idealized and stereotyped Chinese culture was substituted for the local one, and thus the Taiwanese were made into Chinese.</p>
	<p>Michael
</p>
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		<title>by: Yvonne</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-196</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 18:49:55 -0700</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-196</guid>
					<description>I see that you have compared the Taiwan-China situation to the America-UK situation. but there is one huge difference you have neglected to recognize, it's that the land now known as the US was actually a new piece of land discovered by Christopher Columbus. whereas, the land Taiwan has been there all the time. it was first noticed, during the Han Dynasty, which was thousands of years ago, around the 10th Century, there are no official records of Taiwan, though, until the Ming Dynasty, which was in the 15th Century. in fact, ever since China discovered the existance of Taiwan, they have automatically assumed that it was a land of theirs, and of course, at that time the population of Taiwan consisted of mainly Aboriginies, whose language was primarily Austronesian. these people are at least remotely (if not directly) related to the Malaysians.

regarding the language comment by Doug, most of the Chinese that came to Taiwan whether during the Han, Ming, or Chi'ing Dynasty, come from Fujian, which is the coast side province closest to Taiwan. these people speak the Hokkien dialect (kinda like how the Hong Kong people speak the Canton dialect of GuangDong), which is now what we generally refer to as &quot;Taiwanese&quot;. this has been used by the Democracy Progression Party (our current ruling party) as a source of identity that we are Taiwanese and we should therefore speak the Taiwanese language as an official language. which is completely misleading, since it is a Chinese dialect of Fujian anyway. just to be clear, almost every single province in China has a dialect of their own. In fact, in different cities of the provinces, the dialects also sound different to each other. Just as Taiwanese may sound slightly different in pronounciation of some words to the Hokkien Dialect, but it's still based on the same dialect. The SiChuan people speak SiChuan dialects, the ShangHai people speak ShangHainese, there are also Hunan Dailects, and even the BeiJingers have ther own dialect, which is a very strong Beijing accented dialect, not to mention the well known Cantonese, which is in fact, a Chinese Dialect as well.
however, after the war in 1945, and the KMT (ROC) government fled to Taiwan, they forced the people to speak Mandarin under all circumstances, making it our primary language now. it is similar in most areas of China (apart from maybe Hong Kong), as the official language on TV, Radio, News, etc is also Mandarin; but people mostly speak their dialects at home.

I personally consider my roots Chinese, as I speak, read, write, and sometimes think in that language. I'm also very proud of my roots, and I admire the Chinese culture and history. however, when asked about my nationality, I definitely would answer that come from Taiwan. this is firstly because I am not completely Chinese, as there has been a lot of intermarriage, etc. secondly, Taiwan was where I was born and raised, and I definitely do not deny that it is my home.
I would also not be very happy if Taiwan was a colony or part of China, only because of the Communist ruling, how the people are repressed, and the media and government system controlled too much - I am basically against that. and we know how the road down the “one country two systems” policy ends. we would just have that name of having two different systems, but still remotely (if not directly) controlled and manipulated by the Communist government anyway. everyone knows that the biggest mafia in China is in fact the Communist party. 
if the government of China had been different, I probably would not mind being part of a country so large and diverse, and with so much potential of well development. although I am also proud of being from Taiwan.

it is a shame that the international community refuses to acknowledge the existance of Taiwan as a country, (even though some may argue that Taiwan never was a country). and even though it is internationally known that China is controlled way too much by the Communist party, they would still rather stand on the side of China when dealing with the TW-CN issue, since China is so large (both in population and land), and the economic market is so big, and a large development potential, etc. even though Taiwan's economy seemed well before, it is obviously not developing as well as other Asian countries recently, such as Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea, Indonesia, etc, especially after the DPP/Chen Hsui-Bian government overtook Taiwan. and when compared to China, the market potential in Taiwan is just nothing. 
and it's not our fault, or maybe it is. if we developed enough reputation internationally, things would not be this way, even though we are just a small island. HK and Singapore are relatively small (even compared to Taiwan), and yet they are doing fine with international recognition.

that's also why I stand against Taiwan declaring independence, although sometimes I even wonder, &quot;what from?&quot; obviously Taiwan is not part of China now, so why do we need to declare anything? and even if we declare independence, it is just going to show how small Taiwan stands in the international community.
and I always laugh when people say that they are going to war with China, because what the hell? China could easily smash Taiwan underneath their feet, but they don't even have to do that by going to war. all they have to do is economically lock out Taiwan - &quot;if you do business with TW, I don't do business with you&quot; - Taiwan would lose everything. everything would be gone.

why don't the Taiwanese just be happy with what we already have, look up and learn from other well-developed countries, and work hard on developing our own international reputation first, before we even try to &quot;declare independence&quot; or whatever? and along that path, recognizing our Chinese roots wouldn’t hurt so much, either. there’s nothing wrong with being partly Chinese, it helps build who we are, what we are, and it is what makes us special, what makes us different from the Chinese themselves.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I see that you have compared the Taiwan-China situation to the America-UK situation. but there is one huge difference you have neglected to recognize, it&#8217;s that the land now known as the US was actually a new piece of land discovered by Christopher Columbus. whereas, the land Taiwan has been there all the time. it was first noticed, during the Han Dynasty, which was thousands of years ago, around the 10th Century, there are no official records of Taiwan, though, until the Ming Dynasty, which was in the 15th Century. in fact, ever since China discovered the existance of Taiwan, they have automatically assumed that it was a land of theirs, and of course, at that time the population of Taiwan consisted of mainly Aboriginies, whose language was primarily Austronesian. these people are at least remotely (if not directly) related to the Malaysians.</p>
	<p>regarding the language comment by Doug, most of the Chinese that came to Taiwan whether during the Han, Ming, or Chi&#8217;ing Dynasty, come from Fujian, which is the coast side province closest to Taiwan. these people speak the Hokkien dialect (kinda like how the Hong Kong people speak the Canton dialect of GuangDong), which is now what we generally refer to as &#8220;Taiwanese&#8221;. this has been used by the Democracy Progression Party (our current ruling party) as a source of identity that we are Taiwanese and we should therefore speak the Taiwanese language as an official language. which is completely misleading, since it is a Chinese dialect of Fujian anyway. just to be clear, almost every single province in China has a dialect of their own. In fact, in different cities of the provinces, the dialects also sound different to each other. Just as Taiwanese may sound slightly different in pronounciation of some words to the Hokkien Dialect, but it&#8217;s still based on the same dialect. The SiChuan people speak SiChuan dialects, the ShangHai people speak ShangHainese, there are also Hunan Dailects, and even the BeiJingers have ther own dialect, which is a very strong Beijing accented dialect, not to mention the well known Cantonese, which is in fact, a Chinese Dialect as well.<br />
however, after the war in 1945, and the KMT (ROC) government fled to Taiwan, they forced the people to speak Mandarin under all circumstances, making it our primary language now. it is similar in most areas of China (apart from maybe Hong Kong), as the official language on TV, Radio, News, etc is also Mandarin; but people mostly speak their dialects at home.</p>
	<p>I personally consider my roots Chinese, as I speak, read, write, and sometimes think in that language. I&#8217;m also very proud of my roots, and I admire the Chinese culture and history. however, when asked about my nationality, I definitely would answer that come from Taiwan. this is firstly because I am not completely Chinese, as there has been a lot of intermarriage, etc. secondly, Taiwan was where I was born and raised, and I definitely do not deny that it is my home.<br />
I would also not be very happy if Taiwan was a colony or part of China, only because of the Communist ruling, how the people are repressed, and the media and government system controlled too much - I am basically against that. and we know how the road down the “one country two systems” policy ends. we would just have that name of having two different systems, but still remotely (if not directly) controlled and manipulated by the Communist government anyway. everyone knows that the biggest mafia in China is in fact the Communist party.<br />
if the government of China had been different, I probably would not mind being part of a country so large and diverse, and with so much potential of well development. although I am also proud of being from Taiwan.</p>
	<p>it is a shame that the international community refuses to acknowledge the existance of Taiwan as a country, (even though some may argue that Taiwan never was a country). and even though it is internationally known that China is controlled way too much by the Communist party, they would still rather stand on the side of China when dealing with the TW-CN issue, since China is so large (both in population and land), and the economic market is so big, and a large development potential, etc. even though Taiwan&#8217;s economy seemed well before, it is obviously not developing as well as other Asian countries recently, such as Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea, Indonesia, etc, especially after the DPP/Chen Hsui-Bian government overtook Taiwan. and when compared to China, the market potential in Taiwan is just nothing.<br />
and it&#8217;s not our fault, or maybe it is. if we developed enough reputation internationally, things would not be this way, even though we are just a small island. HK and Singapore are relatively small (even compared to Taiwan), and yet they are doing fine with international recognition.</p>
	<p>that&#8217;s also why I stand against Taiwan declaring independence, although sometimes I even wonder, &#8220;what from?&#8221; obviously Taiwan is not part of China now, so why do we need to declare anything? and even if we declare independence, it is just going to show how small Taiwan stands in the international community.<br />
and I always laugh when people say that they are going to war with China, because what the hell? China could easily smash Taiwan underneath their feet, but they don&#8217;t even have to do that by going to war. all they have to do is economically lock out Taiwan - &#8220;if you do business with TW, I don&#8217;t do business with you&#8221; - Taiwan would lose everything. everything would be gone.</p>
	<p>why don&#8217;t the Taiwanese just be happy with what we already have, look up and learn from other well-developed countries, and work hard on developing our own international reputation first, before we even try to &#8220;declare independence&#8221; or whatever? and along that path, recognizing our Chinese roots wouldn’t hurt so much, either. there’s nothing wrong with being partly Chinese, it helps build who we are, what we are, and it is what makes us special, what makes us different from the Chinese themselves.
</p>
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		<title>by: glamorous sky</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-197</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2005 19:23:31 -0700</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-197</guid>
					<description>[...] 4th, 2005  		    the Taiwan-China situation 		   		   		    	after reading an article from Halfway Mag, titled &amp;#8220; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] 4th, 2005  		    the Taiwan-China situation 		   		   		    	after reading an article from Halfway Mag, titled &#8220; [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Lisa7128</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-254</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:21:24 -0700</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-254</guid>
					<description>I totally agree with Yvonne's opinions that you can never be too quick to judge someone base on their appearance or extended culture.
I'm personally half-canadian and half-taiwanese,but when most westerners or foreigners approach me,they would normally ask if I'm either japanese or korean based on common stereotypes about Asains.In the beginning,it seems kinda of fun because Japan and South Korean are in many ways more civilized than Taiwan.But when everytime people meets you and asks if your Japanese,it eventually gets very irritating!
I mean,you would't want people to mistake your identity everytime they meet you,it's like facing a terrible identity crisis!It's like you had no identity at all!
I think it's totally up to the person if they want to admit that they're chinese or taiwanese?!But we as actual human beings should learn to respect that person's identity and how he chooses to identify himself!!!Even the Japanese and koereans originally came from China,just like the Canadians and Americans are originally from England!!!If you were ever to study the history of China!!!It dates way back before World War I.Saying that a Taiwanese is Chinese,tends to be too broad in circumstances to culture.I mean,there is actually at least 5-6 different culture and countries that emerged from that common stereotyping culture &quot;Chinese&quot;,such as the vietnamnese, Hong Kongers,Taiwanese,Singaporean, Malaysian and China,who exactly are you referring to.These are actually countries that have formed a greater impact and higher economic status than that of China,and should be treated equally as worth respected as the people from mainland china.So most people prefer to be called according to their nationality,which is out of mutual respect.I mean,if you were an American,you weren't like it if someone called you British or Athen,even though you were originally from England.But you are an individual,so you eventually develops your own ideas and concepts of what it is to become an American,and that's what makes a person unique!!!I've heard of a China person who have called himself an American,or an American identifing himself as filiphino!!!I mean it might sound hilarous to some people,but you never know that person,how would you know if they've grew up in a multi-cultural background and have experienced terrible identity crisis while growing up.It's just like the Scotish may claim that they're not from England but Scotland alone.We all know the tragical war history between the British and the Scotish.Well,at least I know,so it's easier for me to stand in the other person's shoes and consider why that person choose to identity themselves this way!!!It's all a matter of respect,learning to respect the other person's identity and culture,no matter how they choose to identity themselves!After all,your not the ones that have raised and educated them,you don't even know that person,which doesn't give you the right and proragitivity to judge others crucially!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I totally agree with Yvonne&#8217;s opinions that you can never be too quick to judge someone base on their appearance or extended culture.<br />
I&#8217;m personally half-canadian and half-taiwanese,but when most westerners or foreigners approach me,they would normally ask if I&#8217;m either japanese or korean based on common stereotypes about Asains.In the beginning,it seems kinda of fun because Japan and South Korean are in many ways more civilized than Taiwan.But when everytime people meets you and asks if your Japanese,it eventually gets very irritating!<br />
I mean,you would&#8217;t want people to mistake your identity everytime they meet you,it&#8217;s like facing a terrible identity crisis!It&#8217;s like you had no identity at all!<br />
I think it&#8217;s totally up to the person if they want to admit that they&#8217;re chinese or taiwanese?!But we as actual human beings should learn to respect that person&#8217;s identity and how he chooses to identify himself!!!Even the Japanese and koereans originally came from China,just like the Canadians and Americans are originally from England!!!If you were ever to study the history of China!!!It dates way back before World War I.Saying that a Taiwanese is Chinese,tends to be too broad in circumstances to culture.I mean,there is actually at least 5-6 different culture and countries that emerged from that common stereotyping culture &#8220;Chinese&#8221;,such as the vietnamnese, Hong Kongers,Taiwanese,Singaporean, Malaysian and China,who exactly are you referring to.These are actually countries that have formed a greater impact and higher economic status than that of China,and should be treated equally as worth respected as the people from mainland china.So most people prefer to be called according to their nationality,which is out of mutual respect.I mean,if you were an American,you weren&#8217;t like it if someone called you British or Athen,even though you were originally from England.But you are an individual,so you eventually develops your own ideas and concepts of what it is to become an American,and that&#8217;s what makes a person unique!!!I&#8217;ve heard of a China person who have called himself an American,or an American identifing himself as filiphino!!!I mean it might sound hilarous to some people,but you never know that person,how would you know if they&#8217;ve grew up in a multi-cultural background and have experienced terrible identity crisis while growing up.It&#8217;s just like the Scotish may claim that they&#8217;re not from England but Scotland alone.We all know the tragical war history between the British and the Scotish.Well,at least I know,so it&#8217;s easier for me to stand in the other person&#8217;s shoes and consider why that person choose to identity themselves this way!!!It&#8217;s all a matter of respect,learning to respect the other person&#8217;s identity and culture,no matter how they choose to identity themselves!After all,your not the ones that have raised and educated them,you don&#8217;t even know that person,which doesn&#8217;t give you the right and proragitivity to judge others crucially!!!
</p>
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		<title>by: ray lee</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-255</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:21:44 -0700</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-255</guid>
					<description>Lisa7128:

I'm confused.  I'm not sure if you are directing those comments at me or to people in general.  Because if they are at me, I think you haven't read my article too clearly.

-ray lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Lisa7128:</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m confused.  I&#8217;m not sure if you are directing those comments at me or to people in general.  Because if they are at me, I think you haven&#8217;t read my article too clearly.</p>
	<p>-ray lee
</p>
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		<title>by: Andy Lin</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-1348</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Mar 2006 01:10:33 -0800</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-1348</guid>
					<description>I have the same feeling too.....Nice Job Ray. I wish more people can see this articale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have the same feeling too&#8230;..Nice Job Ray. I wish more people can see this articale.
</p>
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		<title>by: Allen</title>
		<link>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-35066</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 04:14:43 -0700</pubDate>
		<guid>http://halfwaymag.com/archives/2005/09/01/taiwanese-the-americans-of-1776/#comment-35066</guid>
					<description>ummm...ROC was founded in 1911 not 1912...but i like the essay as a whole.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>ummm&#8230;ROC was founded in 1911 not 1912&#8230;but i like the essay as a whole.
</p>
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